Jewel of Judgement, and...

[Finarvyn]

Re-reading NPiA and I happened to notice that when Corwin visits Rebma there is a mention of an equivalent to the Jewel of Judgement there in Rebma. A few semi-random thoughts occurred to me:

(1) I must have noticed that before, but does that mean three Jewels? One in Amber, one in Rebma, and a third in Tir?

(2) If the JoJ is also the "Eye of the Serpent" of Chaos, and there are three jewels, how would that work?

(3) Might Corwin's Pattern have a jewel of its own?

[blinky55]

Hi:) So;

(1) I believe there is only a singular Jewel of Judgement because we didnt see one in the stories or the chronicles. So i see it as singular. That beeing said i see lessser facsimilies beeing created.

(2) The Serpent probably has multiple Eyes, or regenerated lost ones, just like shedding skin.

(3) Corwins PAttern is unique because of its creation and does not follow regular Pattern rules. So thats a ''maybe in the future''.

[thondor]

Wow. I'm not sure I had noticed that before...
Potentially a Rebma jewel, Amber jewel, tir-na-nog and a Primal Pattern jewel. Now I want to find this passage.
Tir jewel could potentially fade in and out.

As for Corwin's pattern having a jewel... I will be treating his Silver Rose a little like the Jewel. On a recent re-read, I was reminded that a silver rose was literally handed to him by a "time spirit" before he inscribed the Pattern. He later says he'll send it off into the Abyss with Oberon funeral, but he hasn't done it yet.

So the Silver rose will have some major and minor time manipulation abilities. It was literally the method used to help the new pattern "catch up" to Amber by having relative time be much much faster for a long time.


Would a Rebma jewel or Tir jewel be different? Or so similar as to be indistinguishable?

[Finarvyn]

Sept 20, 2019 0:35:17 GMT -5 thondor said:

Wow. I'm not sure I had noticed that before...

Funny, right? I know that I've read NPiA a dozen or so times and never caught that reference before, either.

I have to say that I'm puzzled, however, as the PDF that I have doesn't seem to mention the jewel by name. I will have to go back to check my SFBC omnibus edition, because I was certain that Zelazny was specific but this passage (which I assume to be the reference I'm thinkin about) doesn't seem to have the details I expected to see.

We were taken to the palace in the center of the city, and I knew it as my hand knew the glove in my belt. It was an image of the palace of Amber, obscured only by the green and confused by the many strangely placed mirrors which had been set within its walls, inside and out. A woman sat upon the throne in the glassite room I almost recalled, and her hair was green, though streaked with silver, and her eyes were round as moons of jade and her brows rose like the wings of olive gulls. Her mouth was small, her chin was small; her cheeks were high and wide and rounded. A circlet of white gold crossed her brow and there was a crystal necklace about her neck. At its tip there flashed a sapphire between her sweet bare breasts, whose nipples were also a pale green.

This passage suggests a jewel, but not the Jewel.

[Finarvyn]

Oct 16, 2019 19:36:50 GMT -5 Finarvyn said:

I have to say that I'm puzzled, however, as the PDF that I have doesn't seem to mention the jewel by name. I will have to go back to check my SFBC omnibus edition, because I was certain that Zelazny was specific but this passage (which I assume to be the reference I'm thinkin about) doesn't seem to have the details I expected to see.

Okay, so I found the reference, but not by name (which is why it didn't turn up in the PDF search).

This is while Corwin and Random are talking through trumps, NPiA Chapter 6:

I drew forth my cards and held Random's before me.

When he realized who was talking, the first thing he said was "Turn back," and I asked him why.

" 'Cause, according to Llewella, Eric can cream you now. She says wait a while, till he relaxes, and hit him then--like a year from now, maybe."

I shook my head.

"Sorry," said I. "Can't. Too many losses involved in getting us this far. It's a now-or-never situation."

He shrugged, wearing a "Like, I warned you" expression.

"Why, though?" I asked him.

"Mainly because I just learned he can control the weather around here," he said.

"We'll still have to chance it."

He shrugged again.

"Don't say I didn't tell you."

"He definitely knows we're coming?"

"What do you think? Is he a cretin?"

"No."

"Then he knows. If I could guess it in Rebma, then he knows in Amber--and I did guess, from a wavering of Shadow."

"Unfortunately," I said, "I have some misgivings about this expedition, but it's Bleys' show."

"You cop out and let him get axed."

"Sorry, but I can't take the chance. He might win. I'm bringing in the fleet."

"You've spoken with Caine, with Gerard?"

"Yes."

"Then you must think you have a chance upon the waters. But listen, Eric has figured a way to control the Jewel of Judgment, I gather, from court gossip about its double. He can use it to control the weather here. That's definite. God knows what else he might be able to do with it."

Catch the "from its double" reference? Clearly that means that there is another Jewel in Rebma, as Random is trapped there for a year.

[larsongates]

Aug 20, 2019 19:51:46 GMT -5 Finarvyn said:

Re-reading NPiA and I happened to notice that when Corwin visits Rebma there is a mention of an equivalent to the Jewel of Judgement there in Rebma. A few semi-random thoughts occurred to me:

(1) I must have noticed that before, but does that mean three Jewels? One in Amber, one in Rebma, and a third in Tir?

(2) If the JoJ is also the "Eye of the Serpent" of Chaos, and there are three jewels, how would that work?

(3) Might Corwin's Pattern have a jewel of its own?

Why only 3 jewels? or why 3 at all and not 2? The Jewel of Judgement/Eye of the serpent(or is it) was used to create the original Amber Pattern. Dworkin then somehow hid it creating its 3 reflections, The castle Pattern (which everyone thinks is the real Pattern), Remba (Amber backwards), and Tir-Na Nog'th).

Corwin's Pattern can't and doesn't have a Jewel of its own because he created it using the Jewel of Judgement which he received from Oberon via the Blood Bird he created after Oberon restored Amber's Pattern. Corwin created his Pattern because he feared the Universe would be destroyed in the whirlwind unleashed when the Amber Pattern was restored. Dworkin later puts the Jewel in Coral's Eye socket after she is blinded, but the effects/affects of this are never suggested, other than in Shadow Knight.

[ed]

I have always assumed the Rebma jewel was a shadow copy of the real JoJ. So it would have a host of powers but just not as powerful as the real jewel. I'd never considered a Tir version of the jewel and might have to consider it for the game I am currently running. (and as an aside - with Coral running around with the real JoJ in her body might the Rebma version have some power to locate or counter her powers? That's something I'll have to leave for the PCs to figure out. Too bad none of them seem interested in going to Rebma so I can describe the Jewel to them...)

Also, why is it called 'Judgement'? Who gave it that name come or what event inspired it's naming? Could it refer to the Serpent being judged inadequate or guilty and so the eye was taken as punishment?